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Near Misses


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 »  Home  »  Blogs  »  Near Misses
G. R. Whale

Whale’s first work for the TDR appeared in issue 2. He has written on cars, trucks, RVs, the occasional boat and airplane, and won awards for it. In and out of the automotive press he’s been breaking parts for 33 years and writing about it for 20; he’s been a pessimist way longer than that. He admits to being expert at nothing more than filling in circles with a #2 pencil.

 

View all blogs by G. R. Whale...
Near Misses
By G. R. Whale | Published  10/6/2007

I just returned from a media introduction for the Ram 4500 and 550 Chassis Cabs (“in showrooms now”) with an assortment of magazines, many of which included an article I’d contributed. And when I opened one and read about the new GM two-mode hybrid SUV, I started thinking about missed opportunities.

Of course I’d been thinking about at least one missed opportunity all the way from the Ram 45/55 event: more GCWR. TDR members know I’m not anti-Dodge, and when I feel the need to point out something that could be better I am usually not alone, have the objective numbers to back it up, or both, but part of me thinks Dodge may have missed an opportunity with the Ram 4500/5500 by not increasing GCWR over the pickups more than they did.

True, GVWR is up to 16,500 and 19,500 pounds, respectively, these values almost dictated by the class. But Gross Combined is up by “only” 2500 pounds over a big Ram pickup, to 26,000 pounds, and since these “medium-duty heavy-dutys” appear hefty, real towing capacity doesn’t seem much improved over the biggest Ram pickups.

Many Ram commercial buyers will find the tow rating more than adequate for their welding rig, cow tipper, generator or whatever, yet I know more than a few TDR members that need something more in tow capacity. And I think with Ford and GM both offering GCWR in the 30-33K range for their Class 5s, Dodge had better be working on the brakes, cooling, rear ends, gearboxes, or whatever else is a limiting factor in that 26,000 value.

On the other front I’ve heard that GM will eat some of the cost of the hybrid system on their full-size SUVs, but the story I saw today mentions some of the ways they “reduced mass” in these SUVs. These included aluminum hood, tailgate, bumper beams, driveshafts, and wheels, plus taking “almost 10 pounds” out of each seat.

I’d like to know how much more the aluminum bits cost relative the standard steel parts and standard aluminum wheels.  And why didn’t they do all this in the first place? If you can engineer 10 pounds out of each seat without sacrificing anything, surely the manufacturing costs couldn’t be more than what you spent on engineering seats for a new vehicle and then reengineering the same seats a year or two later.

Do you think all that weight saving on a Tahoe/Yukon hybrid should be standard on every Tahoe, and do you think the Ram 4500/5500 needs a boost in GCWR?
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  • Comment #1 (Posted by Harvey Barlow)

    Good article, Greg. I agree with your observation about the 26,000 lb. GCWR limit.

    Prospective 4500/5500 buyers want a tow vehicle capable of combined weights beyond what the Ram 3500 DRW is capable of. Anyone with a fifth wheel travel trailer larger than about 34' will exceed 23k and the largest ones will easily exceed 26k when road ready.

    I wonder if the 26k GCWR figure was established when Daimler ruled to avoid taking sales away from Freightliner Business Class dealers or actually based on some component limitation as you suggested?

    Anyone who has traveled the interstate highway system has seen hotshotters and RV haulers exceeding 26k combined weights with conventional Dodge/Cummins 3500 duallies. I think the trucks are capable of more than 26k.

    I hope Dodge execs read your article.

    Harvey
     
  • Comment #2 (Posted by Charles E Barr)

    I couldn't agree more in regards to the 4500/5500 Dodges. In this part of the world (SW Indiana)seems that Ford kinda owns that weight area.
    Based upon milage figures local owners of GM diesels are stating bet the weight reduction is an attempt to increase this figure.
     
  • Comment #3 (Posted by Wayne Bonne)

    If the 4500 & 5500 are in show rooms now I would like to know where because they sure aren't in Phoenix, Az. It is hard to find a sales person who knows what I am talking about. Let alone what they are babbling about. I have been waiting since 1994 when I bought my 3500 for something bigger but have been recieving nothing but promises. I would like a real answer
     
  • Comment #4 (Posted by Ron Bertinot)

    I think the 26,000 lbs has less to do with capabilities than it does with licensing requitrements. A GCWR of 26,001 and greater requires a class A CDL
     
  • Comment #5 (Posted by James Thomas)

    I also agree that the GCWR needs to be higher....if they plan on competing with the other brands they need to have comparable if not higher weight ratings!
     
  • Comment #6 (Posted by Dick Gabler)

    Weight saving on a Tahoe/Yukon hybrid should be standard on every Tahoe/Yukon. The Ram 4500/5500 needs a boost in GCWR to at least equal to what the competition offers if they want any market share at all. Failure to do so will result in minimal sales in this arena.
     
  • Comment #7 (Posted by ELLIOT)

    My next truck will be a Ford F450 pickup if Dodge does not offer a higher rating and a mega cab matched with a long bed. I need a mega cab or real crew cab but cannot live without the long bed. I am also one of those worried about the weight ratings because of what I currently tow but also we are looking at the 41foot toy haulers that can weight 18,000# fully loaded. Dodge has about a year to get this truck for sale or I'm switching. I do not think I'm the only one with this situation
     
  • Comment #8 (Posted by Jeff Washburn)

    I live in fly over country. We haul 10 tons of hay. We tow 24, 28, and 32 ft stock trailers loaded with cattle. All of which puts us way over 26K GCWR. When we're done we need a vehicle with a flat bed that we can put two one ton bales of hay on to feed cows in deep snow with 4WD. I guess Dodge either wants me to compromise the GCWR or buy the competition. What niche is there in the market for a 5500 with only 2500 lbs additional GCWR?
     
  • Comment #9 (Posted by J N)

    You are dead on about Dodge missing the boat on the GCWR. I was really disappointed, as was my boss, who wants a heavier towing rig to pull our equipment, but still wants the chassis and size of a pickup. I guess we'll have to figure out how to put a Cummins in a F-550.
     
  • Comment #10 (Posted by Nick Isaacs)

    I agree and have said so several times. The 4500/5500 is using the same transmissions as the 3/4 ton pickups. Thats where the GCW restriction comes from.
     
  • Comment #11 (Posted by Bill Davis)

    I agree completely with Greg. I know several Teton owners (heavy) awaited with hope that the 4500/5500 would have a higher rating. I know some who purchased a Ford after release of the Ram specs.
     
  • Comment #12 (Posted by Fred)

    I agree I think they have missed an opportunity for a long time. Having driven tow trucks for several years. Ford has pretty much cornered the market on light duty tow trucks. I was really excited to see that dodge was getting into the 45/55 market. But now I wonder if the truck will meet the towing capabilities needed
     
  • Comment #13 (Posted by dave)

    if dodge was going to get into the 33k range they would have to do like everyone else and buy there chassis and drivetrain from medium duty manufactures like in the 90s when freightliner used the 5.9 and the 8.3. even toyota who owns hino now puts there engine in a freightliner chasis
     
  • Comment #14 (Posted by Wayne Owen)

    I have to agree with Greg as well. Dodge has gone behind the 8-ball in many areas, and will lose many sales if they don't get with the program! I think the 4500/5500 is a good start, but they also need to upgrade the 2500/3500 pickups as well.

    Good story Greg.
     
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