Update On Hydrogen Application

[ASchuerg]

DYNO TEST WERE RUN THIS WEEKEND 2006 3500 5.9 STOCK EXCEPT FOR EXHAUST 4" TURBO BACK TO STACKS COLD AIR KIT afe. AUTOMATIC 2WH DR
RESULTS : FIRST RUN 198 HP TOP REAR WHEELS NO SMOKE 1600RPM'S
TORQUE 500 #

SECOND RUN INJECTING HYDROGEN INTO AIR INTAKE.
202 HP NO SMOKE
TORQUE 500#
AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING IT ADDS POWER BUT INCREASES FUEL ECONOMY. THIS SAME TRUCK CAREFUL DRIVING AVERAGES 22 MPG ALL THE TIME EMPTY
HE NOW CLAIMS 24.5 MPG WITH THIS SYSTEM INSTALLED. STILL WORKING OUT THE BUGS TO RUN CONSTISTANT AMPERAGE.
OUR LOCAL GRAVEL HAULER USES IT HIS TTRUCKS SAYS IT HAS INCREASED FUEL MILEAGE.

WHILE ON THE DYNO HAD A HARLEY SOFTAIL RUN STARTING OUT ON REGULAR GAS AND PLUMBED THE GAS HOSE INTO THE AIR CHAMBER RAN FOR 15 MIN ON STRAIGHT HYDROGEN AFTER TURNING OFF THE PITCOCK OFF.

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by ASchuerg

DYNO TEST WERE RUN THIS WEEKEND 2006 3500 5.9 STOCK EXCEPT FOR EXHAUST 4" TURBO BACK TO STACKS COLD AIR KIT afe. AUTOMATIC 2WH DR
RESULTS : FIRST RUN 198 HP TOP REAR WHEELS NO SMOKE 1600RPM'S
TORQUE 500 #

SECOND RUN INJECTING HYDROGEN INTO AIR INTAKE.
202 HP NO SMOKE
TORQUE 500#
AGAIN I AM NOT SAYING IT ADDS POWER BUT INCREASES FUEL ECONOMY. THIS SAME TRUCK CAREFUL DRIVING AVERAGES 22 MPG ALL THE TIME EMPTY
HE NOW CLAIMS 24.5 MPG WITH THIS SYSTEM INSTALLED. STILL WORKING OUT THE BUGS TO RUN CONSTISTANT AMPERAGE.
OUR LOCAL GRAVEL HAULER USES IT HIS TTRUCKS SAYS IT HAS INCREASED FUEL MILEAGE.

WHILE ON THE DYNO HAD A HARLEY SOFTAIL RUN STARTING OUT ON REGULAR GAS AND PLUMBED THE GAS HOSE INTO THE AIR CHAMBER RAN FOR 15 MIN ON STRAIGHT HYDROGEN AFTER TURNING OFF THE PITCOCK OFF.

YEAH, yeah - that's just what YOU say - guys here (who will now flock to this thread ) - can provide TRAINLOADS of "scientists" who will tell you you didn't really get those results - it's "impossible", and your test methods are clearly flawed and fraudulent...

[gathomas]

Lynchburg, TN ?? isn't that where they make "Jack Daniel's"....???
just thinking out loud

[monkeyman]

Found a guy on e-bay who will build me a quad unit for $160.00, at that price I will test!
Rickl

[Bob V]

Where did the H come from?

[DCreed]

Originally Posted by ASchuerg

WHILE ON THE DYNO HAD A HARLEY SOFTAIL RUN STARTING OUT ON REGULAR GAS AND PLUMBED THE GAS HOSE INTO THE AIR CHAMBER RAN FOR 15 MIN ON STRAIGHT HYDROGEN AFTER TURNING OFF THE PITCOCK OFF.

bowl finally ran out of fuel.

[ASchuerg]

There i one thing i have come to find out about most of the people on this site. You would not know progress if it stared you in the face. Most of of you Tree Hugging Whining Liberals can wait for Congress to help you out on fuel prices. Keep making those Arabs richer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by ASchuerg

There i one thing i have come to find out about most of the people on this site. You would not know progress if it stared you in the face. Most of of you Tree Hugging Whining Liberals can wait for Congress to help you out on fuel prices. Keep making those Arabs richer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't get discouraged - the actual percentage of unbelievers and closed minded critics is quite low - just vocal - and a few are just poking some fun intended to be harmless. The vast majority are probably like me, sorta skeptical, but very interested - and continuing to watch developments with genuine interest.

Keep up the good work - both experimenting, AND posting results!

[Yooper39]

Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD

Don't get discouraged - the actual percentage of unbelievers and closed minded critics is quite low - just vocal - and a few are just poking some fun intended to be harmless. The vast majority are probably like me, sorta skeptical, but very interested - and continuing to watch developments with genuine interest.

Keep up the good work - both experimenting, AND posting results!

I 2nd that!

[Jrissler]

I've been reading bout this and am getting ready to try it myself. Keep it up and we want to hear about it!!!

[Gary - K7GLD]

WELL, it's both interesting, and discouraging at the same time!

ON the one hand, we have all the Physicists and Scientists quoting textbook equations and "laws", and telling us what we are seeing and experiencing is "scientifically impossible" - even as we see guys we know, with absolutely NOTHING to gain by lying, run these setups and GETTING those "impossible" MPG improvements. I know for certain that when *I* try stuff, and it has problems or doesn't work, I spread the word to the best of my ability - am I really to assume others are less candid and honest? To what purpose?

I'd LOVE to try one of these setups myself, but I drive so little on the longer distance trips, that a meaningful test on the short term isn't likely, and it would be the Thanksgiving/Christmas Holidays before such a longer run would be made. And yeah, even if it was quite successful - I'd then have all those same textbook experts telling me that what I experienced wasn't real or possible - and I was most certainly mistaken - must have driven lots differently, or had an unusually potent tank of diesel fuel running along with the HHO...

[jelag]

Someone please help me out.... when I was in college we learned in fuels class that the only way to break hydrogen from water was in a chemical process like overcharging a batter... as a battery overcharges the gases that escape that charging battery are O2and H2.

We were also taught the damage to the battery from a short or spark at the time the overcharge was taking place.... the hydrogen would explode in the right air fuel ratio...

The point I'm trying to make.... was that the energy to release the O and H2 from the bond was something like 80% of the value of the H2 so using this method wouldn't release enough H2 at a cost effective price to work...

At looking at the web sight and the device I seen nothing that really says your releasing the H from the H2O... if you are doing nothing but heating the water.... you actually have water vapor, (steam) but not a chemical process to release the H2 from the H2O.

Am I missing something here.... or is this a crock of bull..... or are the percentage of you in the same position I'm in and just don't see that in your post...

[Gary - K7GLD]

Originally Posted by jelag

Someone please help me out.... when I was in college we learned in fuels class that the only way to break hydrogen from water was in a chemical process like overcharging a batter... as a battery overcharges the gases that escape that charging battery are O2and H2.

We were also taught the damage to the battery from a short or spark at the time the overcharge was taking place.... the hydrogen would explode in the right air fuel ratio...

The point I'm trying to make.... was that the energy to release the O and H2 from the bond was something like 80% of the value of the H2 so using this method wouldn't release enough H2 at a cost effective price to work...

At looking at the web sight and the device I seen nothing that really says your releasing the H from the H2O... if you are doing nothing but heating the water.... you actually have water vapor, (steam) but not a chemical process to release the H2 from the H2O.

Am I missing something here.... or is this a crock of bull..... or are the percentage of you in the same position I'm in and just don't see that in your post...

Jim, the basic underlying factor is not WHETHER there is enough Hydrogen and Oxygen available in water for power, but rather, the availability of an efficient method to release it in a gaseous form that can be used for heat and power. And no, they're not simply "heating the water" to release steam...

On the one hand, we have example after example of individuals and makers of these systems who can clearly demonstrate that it DOES work - and then we have on the other side, guys quoting various scientists and technical textbook saying it's impossible.

That leaves a few of us confused souls literally watching as "impossible" methods power - to at least a small degree - vehicles right in front of our faces - and what do we believe, what we clearly SEE, or those dusty textbooks? Are we really to believe that EACH and EVERY one of the displays we see are from thieves and liars?

Keep in mind, that at this stage, we're not talking about powering the engine ENTIRELY with HHO - but merely supplementing it enough to realize a relatively modest improvement in MPG!

In another related thread, it was claimed that it takes about 1 HP to put out 30 amps in a typical car alternator - and I'm pretty comfortable with that estimate, because I myself built a 1 HP Briggs and Stratton lawnmotor powered GM alternator setup to charge my dad's RV batteries for him - that setup would nearly stall the 1 HP motor at first startup as the ammeter indicated 35 amps, but then ran nicely as the amperage settled down to the 25 amp or so range.

Most of the HHO systems discussed here, fall in the 15-20 amp draw range, which means an added load on the engine to power the alternator of about 1/2 HP - and *I*, personally, have a VERY difficult time, based upon demos I have seen, believing that it's "impossible" for these typical HHO setups to NOT generate enough gasses to recover that 1/2 HP, and THEN some!

[jelag]

Gary... you said what I was trying to say... in a way that I understand.... and I agree with you...

I just can't see enough HHO off of a 25 - 30 amp power supply to separate enough HH from the HHO to add additional fuel to the system and it be cost effective... I understand that it is not replacing the diesel but added HH is using the excess air in the combustion chamber to add additional power without a lot of heat..

And I assume if this was really true we'd see a lot of it going on...

Do you have a clue what is in the unit to create the chemical process to release the HH from the HHO... My son is a mechanical engineer, has his masters and PE and works with 2 electrical engineers in his job... I'm sure that they could shed some light on this with some good information other than photos. After all we know it can't be just heat...

[Gary - K7GLD]

Various solutions in small amounts are used along with the water - vinegar is one.

I heard a story some years back, when higher flying and faster aircraft were being developed, and had reached a point where there was a need for pressurized passenger compartments.

Conventional engineering wisdom at that point in time dictated that making passenger space airtight using conventional construction materials and techniques was "impossible"

The story continues, that the major aircraft maker next took new aircraft engineering students right off the graduation stage, hired them, and assigned them the task of development of a pressurized cabin, during which they were carefully kept apart from other factory engineers. They had never yet been exposed to the "fact" that what they had been assigned was "impossible" - and so, they went ahead and developed what was assigned to them - the "impossible"...

SO, yeah - ask your son - but if he's been out of school very long, and exposed to his peers - you can also expect the same "canned", textbook answer other such engineers quote - no disrespect intended...