In the Market for a New TT

[BBeck]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

You're wrong on Arctic Fox made with Lippert axles. I have a new 27' 5er with Dexter axles and American frame. In fact Northwood Mfg. makes their own frames in their La Grande, Oregon plant, unless I'm mistaken and Oregon is part of China now. Also on a simular thread a few months ago there was a discussion on Lippert frames and Chinese axles, so I called Northwood Mfg., since I know some of the Reps, and asked the question. They assured me that they use Dexter axles and make their own 12" I beam frames. I actually went out and measured the frame on my Fox 5er.

GCP, consider getting a new 5er and if you're thinking about an Arctic Fox and would like to see one for yourself, you're welcome to see ours since you live in Albuquerque and there is no Arctic Fox dealer here any longer. I ordered ours out of Idaho. I really don't want to talk you into getting a Fox if that's not what you want because there are other well made 4 star rated units out there and one 5 star.

I was looking at a TT Arctic Fox and a Nash TT. I believe it was a 27E model. I saw a sticker that said Libbert on the axle. Hopefully I'm wrong it was another trailer on their lot, but it shocked me to see that sticker on the axle which is why I remembered it so well. I also looked at the Nash 26Z2 while I was there.

[BBeck]

Originally Posted by HBarlow

Brad,

I didn't see your post addressed to me until this morning.

Jayco is one of the brands I would consider for weekend/vacationing use and for a starter trailer. I consider Jayco a good value for the price, not among the top rated manfacturers but a good trailer for the dollar. I pulled a lot of Jaycos and liked them when I was transporting. I witnessed a few dealer delivery inpections and it appeared that they were put together pretty well.

I've never seen or read an RV Consumer report so don't know what the report bases its opinon about highway control on. The rating is probably based on some measure of tongue weight as a percentage of overall weight and some opinion about sway. Perhaps the report also measures braking ability? You didn't specify fifth wheel so I'm assuming you bought a conventional tt?

One thing I would encourage you to address immediately on a 2004 trailer is the tires. If you purchased a lightly used 2004 model it probably still has the OEM tires which are already too old for safety. You can read the DOT code molded into the tire carcass on the inside sidewall of each tire.

When I was pulling Jayco trailers the smaller/lighter tts were equipped with "WillPop" brand ChiComm tires which, imo, were just good enough to make the trip from factory to dealer. If I owned one I would pull it directly from the dealer to a tire store and put a new set of tires on it.

Unfortunately, Jayco conventional tts are equipped with small 13" or 14" wheels. IMO opinion there is no such thing as a good trailer tire and no light truck tires of quality are manufactured in any size smaller than 16". The best you can do, again imo, is a set of Goodyear Marathons and I hate GY tires. If your trailer is a fifth wheel I would strongly recommend a set of new light truck tires, Michelin or BF Goodrich Commercial T/A are the only two tires I would use. My tire comments will immediatly cause the owners of various ChiComm brands and inferior American brands to pop up with their angry squeals of defense. That is fine, each to his own. I can only offer opinions on my own experience.

Enjoy your Jayco. My kids were raised traveling and camping on truck campers and travel trailers and my daughter (age 45) still speaks fondly of those times. RVing and camping are great activities for young families with children and also for the rest of us who refuse to grow up.

I purchased the TT, not a 5th wheel.

The trailer has the original tires. They are a 15in ST rated MAXXIS tire. Tires look nearly new. When I had the certified master tech look at the trailer, including the tires, he said the tires were in excellent shape and he would have no hesitation taking the trailer across the country.

I plan to upgrade next year. Thanks for the recommendations.

The reference to the RV Consumer Group is a non-profit that has been evaluating RVs for 20+ years. RV.org

What they found with this trailer is in regard to balance. Just as you stated, it relates to the tongue weight, but also how well is it balanced with the tanks are full or empty. The available payload is also very low at about 1200 lbs. Again, fine for a vacationing trailer.

Thanks for the recommendations on the tires.

Take care,
Brad

[HBarlow]

Brad,

It's none of my business, but I would replace the Maxxis which I consider one of the ChiComm or Korean "willpop" brands, yesterday before I pull the trailer anywhere.

"Certified Master Techs" rarely own and pull a travel trailer. They know a lot about repairing or replacing an RV refrigerator but ....... From your description, the "expert" was judging the tires based on appearance, which is not a useful method for evaluating trailer tires. Trailer tires age and weaken from non-use, not from towing mileage. A five year old RV tire that has only been pulled from factory to dealer, from dealer to buyer's lake front property, may even have full depth original tread remaining, but it is almost a certainty that that tire will throw its tread, blow out, and tear the side panel off the trailer when you pull it on a 100 mile trip on hot summer pavement.

The only way to evaluate a trailer tire is to crawl under the trailer and look at the DOT code molded in to the sidewall of each tire. The DOT code is a four digit number followed by the letters "DOT." The number indicates the week and year the tire was manufactured. In your case the tire may have a DOT code of 2604 which would indicate the tire was molded in the twenty-sixth week of 2004.

Your trailer, your money, your decision.

[Grizzly]

Any ST tire is only good for 3 years from the DOT code and limited to 65 mph, not that we need to pull our trailers any faster. I highly recommend that you get rid those China ST tires as soon as you take delivery of your trailer and get good LT American made tires, such as Michelin XPS Rib.

[AMink]

I bought my '05 trailer in '05. When the first "new" tire blew and took out the fender skirt and all the insulation in the wheel well, I didn't know about the "date" code. Turns out my tires were manufactured in '02--3 years before I bought the trailer. They had been sitting somewhere, either on a rim and axle set, or off. Please check that code. It sucks that a trailer tire can still have nubs on it and be worthless, but it happens. Very few RV tires, either ST or LT or even the big ones on Class A coaches, wear out on the the road. Sitting around kills them.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by BBeck

I was looking at a TT Arctic Fox and a Nash TT. I believe it was a 27E model. I saw a sticker that said Libbert on the axle. Hopefully I'm wrong it was another trailer on their lot, but it shocked me to see that sticker on the axle which is why I remembered it so well. I also looked at the Nash 26Z2 while I was there.

Brad, I stand corrected. I just spoke to Ted, one of the factory reps for Northwood Mfg. He said that they do use Lippert axles on some of the Nash TT. He also said that Lippert are American made in Indiana. All Arctic Fox use Dexter axles. All frames for Nash and AF are made in their own plant.

If you wish, you can call him at 1 800-766-6274. Their reps are friendly and easy to talk too.

The bad news is that they are still using China ST tires. I've been unsuccessful in trying to convince them into using American made LT tires.

[AMink]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

The bad news is that they are still using China ST tires. I've been unsuccessful in trying to convince them into using American made LT tires.

Griz, why do you suppose that is? ST tires are not cheap, at about $100 each for 225/75-15. If they were to buy LT tire from Michelin or BFG in 16" in quantity, they'd get a good price. I just don't understand the whole ST thing. I know that they have softer sidewalls so they ride better and can "scrub" in tight turns, but when they fail, they don't work so well!

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by AMink

Griz, why do you suppose that is? ST tires are not cheap, at about $100 each for 225/75-15. If they were to buy LT tire from Michelin or BFG in 16" in quantity, they'd get a good price. I just don't understand the whole ST thing. I know that they have softer sidewalls so they ride better and can "scrub" in tight turns, but when they fail, they don't work so well!

I think the RV manufactures use ST tires because they are cheaper for them and they must buy in huge quantities and must get them for almost nothing. They, RV manufactures, don't really care because they don't warrant tires or batteries anyway. If you get a blowout, you take it up with whatever dealer sells them, if you can find them.

As soon as I got my Arctic Fox 5er home from the dealer in Idaho by way of Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Utah and New Mexico, I took the trailer to Discount Tire and had all 5 tires changed out to Michelin XPS Rib. I then sold the original 5 China tires on Craigslist for $300.00. They still looked brand new and the guy was happy to get them so cheap. I did tell him that they were ST tires and won't last long.

[AMink]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I think the RV manufactures use ST tires because they are cheaper for them and they must buy in huge quantities and must get them for almost nothing. They, RV manufactures, don't really care because they don't warrant tires or batteries anyway. If you get a blowout, you take it up with whatever dealer sells them, if you can find them.

As soon as I got my Arctic Fox 5er home from the dealer in Idaho by way of Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Utah and New Mexico, I took the trailer to Discount Tire and had all 5 tires changed out to Michelin XPS Rib. I then sold the original 5 China tires on Craigslist for $300.00. They still looked brand new and the guy was happy to get them so cheap. I did tell him that they were ST tires and won't last long.

Did you have to upgrade your rims for the XPS's? Or could you find them in 15"?

EDIT: Never mind, I saw on the web site that you start with 16" rims.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by AMink

Did you have to upgrade your rims for the XPS's? Or could you find them in 15"?

EDIT: Never mind, I saw on the web site that you start with 16" rims.

I did upgrade the wheels when I ordered the 5er. I upgraded to the polished aluminum instead the steel, which were already 16" for the 235/85 tire. Very little difference in $.

[HBarlow]

There is a big company that imports the tires and wheels and supplies mounted wheels and tires to the RV manufacturing industry, I forgot their name. They use mostly WillPop brand tires mounted on cheapo ChiComm steel spoked wheels. My guess is the trailer or frame manufacturers pay something like $25/wheel for mounted wheels and tires ready to bolt onto their new trailer frames.

Manufacturers dodge the quality issue because they don't deal directly with the tire failure issue so maintain their distance and deniability and can "truthfully" say they believe their tires provided good service and they are not aware of any problems.

Some of the lesser American brands are no better than WillPops. My HitchHiker was delivered new in '07 with Uniroyal Laredo 16" light truck tires. I blew one running 65 mph on I-40 between ABQ and Santa Rosa when the tires were eleven months and 16,000 miles old. When the tires were removed to install a set of Michelin XPS Ribs the next day the tire guys showed me another one was already separating tread from casing.

[BBeck]

I'll look at the code on Wednesday. So what are the recommendations for tire and wheel combo?. Since I don't travel a lot, would the GY Marathon 15" be ok on the existing rims? Looks like they are about $80 a piece and the 16" Michelin XPS Rib is about $225 a piece

Other options you would recommend?

Sorry for hijacking this thread!

[HBarlow]

I have a strong dislike and distrust of GY trailer tires but in 15" size they are, IMO, one of the better choices available.

I put a set of ordinary Michelin SUV tires on my last conventional travel trailer that used 15" rims. I put 60k miles including a trip to AK on them before I sold the trailer and they still looked good.

The "ideal solution" would be a set of 16" replacement wheels and a set of LT215/75 R16 LRD or LRE tires from Michelin or BF Goodrich but they'll cost you some money. They will fit most trailers that came with OEM 15" tires and wheels.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by BBeck

I'll look at the code on Wednesday. So what are the recommendations for tire and wheel combo?. Since I don't travel a lot, would the GY Marathon 15" be ok on the existing rims? Looks like they are about $80 a piece and the 16" Michelin XPS Rib is about $225 a piece

Other options you would recommend?

Sorry for hijacking this thread!

I don't believe Goodyear Marathons are as good as they were some years ago. Last I heard they are now made in China. I agree with Harvey, get a good SUV or 1/2 ton truck 15" American tire with Load Range D or better.

[Blu-meanie]

I changed to Greenball Tow-Master. Check them out. The trailer websites seem to like them, so that's what I bought.
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