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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Country --North of Dayton OH
    Posts
    495

    I am not drinking the Kool-Aid for GB anymore

    After listening to the ''This is not Amnesty'' speech,I have to conclude that President Bush jumped the shark on this one. If he thinks that it is necessary to educate the Republican Base on the immigration issue,then I am GONE. In the past, I have voted for Nixon,Ford,Reagan,Bush,and Bush The rebellion is already starting. Fundraisers of the party are getting an earful on this issue,and the dollars of support for the party are at 50% of normal.
    2002 ETH DEE LWB Cab & Chassis Util. bed. World's Ugliest running boards. LED brake lights. 4 other diesels.

  2. #2
    Mr. Bush has forgotten the penultimate law of American politics: Ya gotta dance with who brung ya. American conservatives brought him to the dance, and he has left them standing by the punchbowl while he dashed off to romance the sweet senorita that snuck in the back door. Big, big mistake.



    Check out this article, and take the time to read the comments by the readers at the bottom. Looks like the Republicans are not finished shooting themselves in the foot - they are busily reloading at this very moment, and their supporters are leaving in droves.



    This is great news folks. Remember, every time a Dollartarian takes it on the chin, an angel gets its wings!



    For Bush, fight over immigration bill is personal | Chron. com - Houston Chronicle



    May 31, 2007, 9:01PM

    For Bush, fight over immigration bill is personal



    By JULIE MASON

    Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau



    President Bush sounded like he hoped to sever ties with the remaining 30 percent who like him when he went after critics in his party this week over opposition to his latest immigration plan.



    "If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill's an amnesty bill," Bush said during a stop in Glynco, Ga. "That's empty political rhetoric, trying to frighten our citizens. "



    It was his harshest public backhand yet to the conservative bloggers, commentators, politicians and CNN anchor Lou Dobbs, all gassing about how the bill amounts to amnesty.



    "People shouldn't fear our capacity to uphold our motto, E Pluribus Unum," Bush told McClatchy Newspapers.



    (snip)



    For Bush, the fight over immigration reform is a personal one — unlike Social Security or education reform, which were mostly political.



    "I feel passionate about the issue. It's something I have felt strongly about ever since I was the governor of Texas," he said.



    "Texas is a very diverse state, Houston is a very diverse city, and through that diversity, if you're open-minded, you get a great sense of how it invigorates the society," said Bush, a Houston resident in the 1960s and '70s.


    Check out the comments from the readers - some of these guys are brilliant! And mightily, mightily PO'd!



    USA1 wrote:

    For me this bill is personal when my children are the ones who will pay for it in the future. For Bush to say we're ignorant is pathetic. Those who listen to talk radio are the most informed. I spend more time everyday listening to various opinions on the issues then he probably does. As an ardent supporter of Bush and the war, I'm done now. And the Republican Senate Committee can forget about any donations.



    (snip)



    deepblue wrote:

    Immigration is the last straw that broke this camels back. I have voted for republicans since Nixon. I have been a strong suporter of President Bush untill now. I connot believe Mr. Bush can be so stupid. This bill will add at least 3 to 5 million democratic voters in the next election, now consider that Mr. Bush won the last election by 2. 5 million votes. Rpublicans may never hold power again.



    (snip)



    nojabo wrote:

    Bush is, without a doubt, the worst President of the last 100 years. He cares not at all about the opinions of the great mass of people who are citizens of this country. He, instead, listens to his corporate donors who, while living in gated communities and sending their children to private schools, want an endless supply of cheap labor. The current "amnesty lite" bill being bandied about would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous to the country's future. The idea that 200,000 "guest workers" will magically go home when their visas expire is so naive that it makes one believe Bush knows it isn't true. As a parent I have learned one thing--if you reward bad behavior you will get more bad behavior. With a stroke of a pen 12 to 20 million law breakers will be given legal status. Why would millions more not start heading north for our border? I am a lifelong Republican and I am in search for another party. The RNC will never see another dime from my family. I only wish there was a party out there who cared about the American worker. Maybe it's time for me and mine to start exploring legal emigration to a country that cares about its citizens. This one doesn't.


    But don't worry Republicans, I'm sure the illegals will vote for you when you turn them into citizens - just like their power bloc always has, right?
    Mike Ellis

    '97 Club Cab 3500, 5 spd, 3.54 gears, Camper/Tow package, turn down gooseneck, Line-X bedliner, KDP jigged, RS9000X shocks, Torklift frame mount tiedowns, Bigfoot 2500 10.6 camper. Leprosy cured at last - new paint May 08

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Colo-pot-o :(
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    1,497
    Welcome to the club. The ex-Bush supporter club that is. It makes me sick how our "leader" has abandoned, not only his base, but all of the citizens of the United States of America. There is only one explanation as far as I can tell and that is the North American Union. Our sovereignty is becoming history right before our very eyes.



    The question is-is it too late to salvage?
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  4. #4
    Write your Congressmen and tell them to oppose the amnesty bill. Then tell them to support Ron Paul's proposal to amend the Constitution.



    Dr. Paul wrote, "The much-vaunted Senate “compromise” on immigration is a compromise alright: a compromise of our laws, a compromise of our sovereignty, and a compromise of the Second Amendment. That anyone in Washington believes this is a credible approach to solving our immigration crisis suggests just how out of touch our political elites really are.



    "The reality is that this bill will grant amnesty to virtually all of the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in the country today. Supporters use very creative language to try and convince us that amnesty is not really amnesty, but when individuals who have entered the United States illegally are granted citizenship – regardless of the fees they are charged – what you have is amnesty.



    "What is seldom discussed in the immigration debate, unfortunately, is the incentives the US government provides for people to enter the United States illegally. As we know well, when the government subsidizes something we get more of it. The government provides a myriad of federal welfare benefits to those who come to the US illegally, including food stamps and free medical care. Is this a way to discourage people from coming to the US illegally?



    "Additionally, one of the most absurd incentives for people to come to the US illegally is the promise of instant US citizenship to anyone born on our soil. That is why when Congress returns next week I will be re-introducing my Constitutional amendment to deny automatic citizenship to individuals born on US soil to parents who are not US citizens or who do not owe permanent allegiance to the United States.



    "There are many other very troubling items buried deep in the Senate’s immigration compromise. The bill explicitly calls for an “acceleration” of the March 2005 agreement between the US president, the president of Mexico, and the prime minister of Canada, known as the “Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) of North America. ” This somewhat secretive agreement – a treaty in all but name – aims to erase the borders between the United States, Canada, and Mexico and threatens our sovereignty and national security. The SPP was agreed by the president without the participation of Congress. It should be eliminated, not accelerated!



    "According to the pro-Second Amendment Gun Owners of America, the legislation also makes it easier to target gun dealers for prosecution. Even gun clubs could find themselves targeted under this immigration reform legislation.



    "Immigration reform should start with improving our border protection, yet it was reported last week that the federal government has approved the recruitment of 120 of our best trained Border Patrol agents to go to Iraq to train Iraqis how to better defend their borders! This comes at a time when the National Guard troops participating in Operation Jump Start are being removed from border protection duties in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas and preparing to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan! It is an outrage and it will result in our borders being more vulnerable to illegal entry, including by terrorists.



    "I will continue to oppose any immigration bill that grants amnesty to illegals or undermines our liberty and sovereignty. "
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  5. #5
    Write your Congressmen and tell them to oppose the amnesty bill. Then tell them to support Ron Paul's proposal to amend the Constitution.


    Amen! Support Ron Paul folks, he is our only chance!
    Mike Ellis

    '97 Club Cab 3500, 5 spd, 3.54 gears, Camper/Tow package, turn down gooseneck, Line-X bedliner, KDP jigged, RS9000X shocks, Torklift frame mount tiedowns, Bigfoot 2500 10.6 camper. Leprosy cured at last - new paint May 08

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Higher Plains,Colo USA
    Posts
    6,245

    You to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Ellis View Post
    Amen! Support Ron Paul folks, he is our only chance!


    I have the same idea, Ron Paul for Pres. . .
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
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  7. #7
    After listening to Ron Paul in the debate say 9/11 was our fault I don't think a man with the battered wife syndrome has the qualifications needed to become president. I guess if you follow Ron Paul's line of thinking WWII was Franklin Delano Roosevelt's fault because he didn't reach out to the Germans and Japanese with compassion and caring. If we as a nation had stayed out of Europe and Asia and had become total isolationists then we would not have deserved the attack on Pearl Harbor. Please I don't mean to offend anyone but Mr Paul is an idiot if he thinks isolation is the key to our peace and prosperity.



    Edward

  8. #8
    I'm kinda with Edward on the Ron Paul thing. He's a good voice at the table on issues, but he seems to lack the peripheral vision needed for a decent president.
    04.5 2500 Laramie SB QC 4x4, 48RE w/ 3.73, KORE & 315's, caravan shell w/ line-x
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Higher Plains,Colo USA
    Posts
    6,245

    Not supprized...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    After listening to Ron Paul in the debate say 9/11 was our fault I don't think a man with the battered wife syndrome has the qualifications needed to become president. I guess if you follow Ron Paul's line of thinking WWII was Franklin Delano Roosevelt's fault because he didn't reach out to the Germans and Japanese with compassion and caring. If we as a nation had stayed out of Europe and Asia and had become total isolationists then we would not have deserved the attack on Pearl Harbor. Please I don't mean to offend anyone but Mr Paul is an idiot if he thinks isolation is the key to our peace and prosperity.



    Edward


    Not supprized Eddy. Common sense and reasoning has never been one of your strong points. . We are not fighting the Germans and Japanese this time. . .
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Champane Flight View Post
    Not supprized Eddy. Common sense and reasoning has never been one of your strong points. . We are not fighting the Germans and Japanese this time. . .




    CF

    You are consistent I just have to give it to you on that. You were unable to address my comments about the behavior of Mr Paul so you decided to attack the messenger instead. Now would you care to be honest and address the Issue of Mr Paul having the battered wife syndrome? Would you also be honest and address the issue of Mr Paul and his isolationism? Since you seem to have a monopoly on common sense and reason please enlighten the rest of us.



    Edward

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Higher Plains,Colo USA
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    Supprize, supprize...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    CF

    You are consistent I just have to give it to you on that. You were unable to address my comments about the behavior of Mr Paul so you decided to attack the messenger instead. Now would you care to be honest and address the Issue of Mr Paul having the battered wife syndrome? Would you also be honest and address the issue of Mr Paul and his isolationism? Since you seem to have a monopoly on common sense and reason please enlighten the rest of us.



    Edward


    I am playing the same game your side has been playing for years. Whats sa matter, you don't like it?



    Do you really think I am going to address a stupid remark like the battered wife syndrome? Not a chance, I will let you chuckle to yourself over that one, your the only one laughing. I do not for one think that WE have to be the worlds policeman, let the countrys in that region handle it, why should we use our troops as targets for every extremist in the middle east? If they are a threat to the world, let the world call for a coalition to take care of it, why may I ask are WE supposed to be the salvation for all? Mr Paul is calling for less government, less taxes, true conservative/libertarian measures. Do you like being a pawn to the present way of thought, that has failed to produce anything conservative?



    Mr Paul is not calling for isolationist ideals, just willing to stop the cycle of BAD foriegn policy, and war. To face the truth is hard, try it sometime.
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
    02 TDI Bug Da road car

  12. OBL said he was going to attack the United States because of our occupation of their holy lands. He then did it, and claimed he did it because of our occupation of their holy lands.



    The CIA stated our presence in the Mideast was likely to cause "blowback" which it did in the form of airliners hijacked by terrorist being used as bombs.



    The 911 commission report stated the terrorists attacked the United States because of United States' meddling in Arab affairs.



    Ron Paul simply stated the facts already pointed out by those above and others. He had the foresight (and peripheral vision) during the debate about invading to realize the international mess it would create. Ron Paul's statements of half a decade ago have been proven correct, while Bush, Cheney, and all the Congresscritters who supported the invasion have been proven wrong. This country would be much better off if these politicians had simply listened to the statesman in their midst, Ron Paul.
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  13. By the way, Dr. Paul and his wife have been married for about 4 decades. Neither of them has any "battered wife syndrome. "



    If you will bother to actually read some of what Dr. Paul has written, you will see he is definitely not an isolationist. he simply opposes military intervention and support for foreign dictators.



    Book

    Archives



    Find anywhere he proposes restricting international trade or travel, or any nongovernmental peaceful interaction with foreigners. If you can't find it, will you have the honesty and integrity to recant and apologize?
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  14. #14
    Foresight and peripheral vision are two different things.



    Fore sight is the ability to predict a cause and affect. GW is clueless on this one, always has been, and shows no progress of learning from his mistakes. He might have been well served to listen to Ron Paul on this issue.



    Peripheral vision is the ability to recognize the interconnectivity of issues and develop a working perspective. Business leaders die for this skill. It’s very hard to recognize and develop. It’s what would make a president good for the country.



    I haven’t noticed in RP, but honestly, haven’t looked for it much either. I’ve only heard a few things from him, and I look at the whole package before I judge a man’s worthiness. I don’t have anything to recant or apologize for, but feel free to point it out, and I’ll consider it.
    04.5 2500 Laramie SB QC 4x4, 48RE w/ 3.73, KORE & 315's, caravan shell w/ line-x
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Champane Flight View Post
    I am playing the same game your side has been playing for years. Whats sa matter, you don't like it?



    Do you really think I am going to address a stupid remark like the battered wife syndrome? Not a chance, I will let you chuckle to yourself over that one, your the only one laughing. I do not for one think that WE have to be the worlds policeman, let the countrys in that region handle it, why should we use our troops as targets for every extremist in the middle east? If they are a threat to the world, let the world call for a coalition to take care of it, why may I ask are WE supposed to be the salvation for all? Mr Paul is calling for less government, less taxes, true conservative/libertarian measures. Do you like being a pawn to the present way of thought, that has failed to produce anything conservative?



    Mr Paul is not calling for isolationist ideals, just willing to stop the cycle of BAD foriegn policy, and war. To face the truth is hard, try it sometime.


    Evidently you are incapable of comprehending what the syndrome is. I guess it would be stupid to someone to ignorant to know about it.



    Edward

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