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  1. #1
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    Is healthcare constitutional?

    A simple question. I am curious what everyone thinks about this since it seems Madame Pelosi is going to force this through against the people's will.

  2. #2
    Of course not. Here is an online copy of the Constitution. You can do a search for any of the following words: health, medicine, medical, doctor, hospital. They do not appear anywhere in the document. The powers of Congress are well defined in a very finite list in Article I Section 8. The 10th Amendment clearly states if it isn't specifically listed they can't do it. They have no power or authority to legislate health care.



    The real question is, "Do they care?" And the answer is the same: "Of course not. " Go to the library and find any edition of any newspaper for the last 50 years and search for any report on Congress. Is the action described in that report Constitutional or not? The actions of the FDA and the HSA are unconstitutional as is their very existence. Does Congress care? Congress continues to fund these and all the other unconstitutional departments. It doesn't matter if the Republocrats or the Demublicans are in power.



    The R's were happy to pass (unconstitutional) Medicare drug benefits for Bush, but now they argue against Obamacare. But they argue saying it will cost too much, fund abortions, reward illegal aliens, and other tripe, which is all true, but they don't mention it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  3. #3
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  4. #4
    Nope. But it'll be enacted anyway.
    Mike Ellis

    '97 Club Cab 3500, 5 spd, 3.54 gears, Camper/Tow package, turn down gooseneck, Line-X bedliner, KDP jigged, RS9000X shocks, Torklift frame mount tiedowns, Hecho en Mexico, still bone stock. Truck aging disgracefully but I still love it...

  5. #5
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    It is not constitutional, and that will be proven in the end of it.

    Many lawmakers will loose thier jobs over this if they vote for it.
    1998 quad 4X4

  6. #6
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    What are the chances that any court in this country is going to strike it down?

  7. #7
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    Yeap..

    To promote the general welfare of the people. .



    Sometimes you just have to drag the naughty kids to the bath. . .
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
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  8. #8
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    There is a lot of difference between "promote" and " provide".
    1998 quad 4X4

  9. #9
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    Provide?

    Quote Originally Posted by fox View Post
    There is a lot of difference between "promote" and " provide".


    You will still provide. . .
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
    02 TDI Bug Da road car

  10. #10
    Ah, what a beautiful day it will be when that Colorado doctor decides that Soylent Flight, uhh I mean CHAMPANE Flight, doesn't need his kidney nearly as much as that productive young illegal alien.



    While they're dragging you down to the horsepital for an appointment with a meat saw, just console yourself with the Nobamacare Mantra:



    "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. "




    Mike Ellis

    '97 Club Cab 3500, 5 spd, 3.54 gears, Camper/Tow package, turn down gooseneck, Line-X bedliner, KDP jigged, RS9000X shocks, Torklift frame mount tiedowns, Hecho en Mexico, still bone stock. Truck aging disgracefully but I still love it...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Champane Flight View Post
    To promote the general welfare of the people. .



    Sometimes you just have to drag the naughty kids to the bath. . .
    The phrase, "promote the general welfare of the people" does not occur anywhere in the Constitution. The reference to the "general Welfare" in the preamble grants no authority to any part of the federal government to do anything.

    Given the nature of men, the long dubious history of government corruption, fraud and waste, I find it difficult to believe that anyone thinks our legislature should be or posses the faculties to be our moral compass. Or that they truly act in the interest of the general welfare of the people rather than themselves.



    Furthermore, any taxing of the people and spending by the government – even defense spending – by nature necessarily decreases the welfare of those taxed.



    Consider the congress decides that providing health care for Americans is providing for their general welfare.



    But the government has to pay for this health care somehow so they either raise our taxes, borrow money from foreign countries or have the Federal Reserve print more money to pay for it. All equally effective forms of taxation.



    Let’s assume the government taxes Peter an extra $500/year in order to pay for health care for Paul. But of course that $500 won’t be $500 by the time it goes through the government’s inefficient bureaucracy so they also have to tax Robert, David, Jim and many others just to provide health care for Paul. Now Paul is better off because he now has health care. But all the people that were taxed to pay for it are worse off. They didn’t want to give that $500 to the government. They wanted to use it for clothes or food or investment or any number of other things.
    Powers of the federal government are delineated in Article I for Congress, Article II for the president, and Article III for the "supreme Court. ".



    The reference to, "the general Welfare of the United States" in Article I Section 8 doesn't serve your Marxist cause either. At least not according to
    James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. They argued that the General Welfare Clause confers no additional power. Rather, the clause is a convenient means of referring to the enumerated powers in the aggregate and, more important, restrains their exercise. First, Congress may exercise only enumerated powers; second, that exercise must serve the general welfare, not the welfare of particular parties or sections of the nation.
    And
    I give you James Madison on the general welfare clause in Federalist no. 41:

    For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.
    For your edification and general education (You're obviously the product of public education. ) I humbly submit:

    This.

    That.

    And. . .

    The Other Thing.
    Dave

    C₂H₅OH If it's good enough for your car, it's good enough for you.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champane Flight View Post
    You will still provide. . .


    Only thru illegal mandates.

    If I CHOOSE to give charity so be it.

    This is forced and quite illegal.



    It is not a constitutional issue.



    time will get to the truth and get this scam banned.

    Did you see the comments about passage helping to get the country solvent fiscally?

    They are pushing this so they have more money to give away.

    This money comes from mime and your pockets.

    Try to understand that.
    1998 quad 4X4

  13. #13
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    Always has...

    You still don't get it, the money NOW comes from our pockets! We pay for our own, theirs, and even people from other countries! Why shouldn't it pay for mine and yours?



    And enough of the death panel scare crapola, if a kid of sixteen needs a liver and I am eighty years old, I do hope they give it to the kid, I insist!. . .



    If we the people want health care, we will have it, promoting the general welfare is part of the preamble, therefore part of the constitution. . No one is taking anything away from you, you are gaining rights not losing. . .
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
    02 TDI Bug Da road car

  14. #14
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    Rights come from GOD.

    Not congress.

    If congress can give them they can also take away rights.



    Of course , I guess, one needs to understand there is a God.



    Our constitution is a written law that no one can bypass, of course without modifying it first with a con-con.



    They do not have the power to pass this and other laws they did pass, without the power first given to them from the people or states.
    1998 quad 4X4

  15. #15
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    Turn the record player off..

    Quote Originally Posted by fox View Post
    Rights come from GOD.

    Not congress.

    If congress can give them they can also take away rights.



    Of course , I guess, one needs to understand there is a God.



    Our constitution is a written law that no one can bypass, of course without modifying it first with a con-con.



    They do not have the power to pass this and other laws they did pass, without the power first given to them from the people or states.


    Your the one who voted them in, giving them the power. . . What a bunch of spoiled brats, Bushy and his Republicant thugs did all kind of things I did not agree with, but I never called them unconstitutional, even though many were. . Get over it, you lost the battle. . I will remember that statement about God and rights when some Republicant trys to take your guns. . .
    Last edited by Champane Flight; 03-19-2010 at 06:46 PM.
    95 CTD treated with TLC for many years to come. New gato on, 4" Diamond eye system. Plated, new paint ON.
    02 TDI Bug Da road car

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