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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530

    Replacement for AirDog?

    I've had nothing but problems with my 200 GPH AirDog II. Just trying to buy the right thing involved 3 trips to Jefferson City so we've faced nothing but hassles from the start. Once we were finally on the road we barely made it from St. Louis to Salt Lake City and had to have a new AirDog shipped to us within days of installation.

    Got lucky for a couple years only having to swap filters and motors. I didn't get the warranty info from the shop that installed it so I'm now having to buy replacement parts. They sold me a filter last time that doesn't even fit. Almost every time we've called for support we're talking to a different person because the last guy isn't there anymore. The shop we've been going to used to be a dealer but had the same issues and doesn't deal with the anymore.

    Originally pumps would have little pressure and lose that over a few months. Barely maintained 10 psi for years. Aside from swapping in new motors, Pureflow has sent us the other part with the bearings in it, and we've even dropped the tank. We finally bought a decent motor for it this last time that puts out strong, consistent pressure averaging 50-60 psi, dropping occasionally to 30 something under load and peaking near 80. The motor sounds louder but low RPM torque feels stronger, smoke is decreased, and fuel economy has averaged nearly 2 mpg higher, even when hauling cattle.

    This new pump that finally runs strong has been having other electrical problems resulting in melted fuses, relays, and wires. The local shop discovered problems in the original AD wiring harness. First they swapped in new pigtails but those melted. They tried soldering wires directly and those have held but we're still melting relays and fuses. By melted I mean soggy wads of plastic.

    The local shop put an amp gauge on the wires and saw erratic draw going from 5-10 amps to 20 amps. Electrical load seems to change independently of the consistent fuel pressure. The shop says the issue is within the pump drawing more amperage than the system is made to handle since the wires coming out of the pump are only 14 gauge. We could upgrade everything else but those 14 gauge wires will then probably end up melting. The pump obviously sometimes draws more than the 20 amps the circuit is built for.

    I've spent thousands in shop fees over the years trying to get the AirDog to be reliable so it is time to replace it. I've read FASS system can have the same issues with wiring and I can't risk another several hundred dollar fuel pump problem. The reason I went to an electric lift pump was because I went through 14 mechanical pumps in 2 years. I assumed it was no longer possible to get a good mechanical lift pump even from dealerships. The shop I'm talking to says he's pretty sure he can get an Allied mechanical pump that would be better than a Carter that should be good for 60,000-70,000 trouble free miles. He said the new mechanical pumps no longer come with the primer button so you have to crack the injectors.

    If I go back to a mechanical lift pump I'll need to come up with a new filter system. Any recommendations for something I could mount to the frame that would be easy to swap with filters easy to find when traveling? Something with a water drain? I'm also wondering if I should look into a pump and filter combination from a WVO vendor. I'm expecting those systems have been far more thoroughly tested and are perhaps much more durable since they're designed for greater viscosity. Any experience or recommendations regarding a WVO system? Not sure I want to do all of the collecting and filtering, I just want something that won't have me calling a tow truck on a monthly basis.

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone managed to have years of trouble free use with an AirDog? I've had nearly everything checked; filters, lines, fuses, relays, wiring harness, no air or fuel leaks, replaced motors and even the entire assembly. I hate now that I have a strong running pump I can't keep it running. I'm done.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    Forgot to mention I also tried 5 different overflow valves within a year that made no difference.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Andover, Ohio
    Posts
    2,363
    Ive heard good things about the gear driven Assasin pumps, especially from people who are making big horsepower. Theyre good for stock trucks, as well. I dont know much about them, but they mount inline with the damper on the front of the truck and run off an auxuillary belt. Supposed to be very reliable and as the rpm increases, so does the fuel pressure, completely opposite of the electric pumps. Ive got a raptor 100 that hasnt given me any problems (yet) but when the time comes for a big investment, Ill be trying one out. I dont have any links off hand for ya, try to Google DTT (I think) Assasin. You should find something.
    JR

    1998.5 24v 4x4

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Andover, Ohio
    Posts
    2,363
    Its been known from here to Ethiopia the stock carter pumps are paper weights at best even in stock form. Add a few power gains and the next thing to go aside from the lift pump is the vp. i would be willing to bet youd be hard pressed to find a handful of people using the oem lift pump on the 98. 5 -02 trucks on this site. Yes theyre that bad. The mechanical pumps on the 12 valves werent much better. Actually, they werent any better. But the p pumps were much more tolerable to bieng starved of fuel.
    Last edited by JR; 12-05-2012 at 09:40 PM.
    JR

    1998.5 24v 4x4

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    Thankfully the 913 P7100 always keeps running several minutes after the lift pumps fail. Those old mechanical lift pumps gave me endless headaches. Is anyone familiar with a new design by Allied that no longer has a primer? I've had to use it many times in high altitude and low temperature environments like when rock crawling and camping at 13,000' -22 degrees F in Colorado, -46 degrees in Montana, etc. I think the constant +100 in Missouri has probably been tough on this electric pump but it is still failing at lower temps. Had little trouble with the AD when I lived in Alaska but tons of trouble with it on the way there.

    The suggestion of the DTT Assassin looks excellent. In reading up about that and their old unit I also came across the MITUSA. Neither website shows offerings for a 1994 12 valve. From what I've read both claim not to be compatible with my Fluidampr but I see a number of people running them with only an 1/8" of clearance to the fan belt and 3/16" to the fan. I have a custom made plastic fan with my Horton electromagnetic clutch so space may be too limited. I've also read mixed things about both of these mechanical, belt driven pumps probably requiring an electric primer pump. Guess I could just keep the AirDog on there for startup and as backup. I suppose I'll need and additional filtration system even if the AD remains as backup.

    It is amazing how many people have trouble with lift pumps, both OEM and aftermarket. Just barely starting to search multiple forums shows a tremendous need for improved product availability. I'm also starting to look at the Walbro GFS-392 but haven't come across what sort of fuel pressure to expect from one. Everyone just says it is high and has to have an external regulator. What worries me is that only flows about 67 GPH so I see some folks run a pair in tandem. Does that actually increase GPH? Would I only need that flow when at 4,000 RPMs using 600 hp and be OK for most driving and towing situations?

    I've also wondered about combining a stock cam driven lift pump with the AirDog. Would the mechanical pump tolerate the higher pressure and flow being pushed through it? When the AirDog fails again will the mechanical pump be able to pull through the AirDog when it's not running?

    Does anyone have a phone number for Opie? I tried his email link but it came back not working.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bend, Or
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by MMcCallie View Post
    If I go back to a mechanical lift pump I'll need to come up with a new filter system. Any recommendations for something I could mount to the frame that would be easy to swap with filters easy to find when traveling? Something with a water drain? I'm also wondering if I should look into a pump and filter combination from a WVO vendor. I'm expecting those systems have been far more thoroughly tested and are perhaps much more durable since they're designed for greater viscosity. Any experience or recommendations regarding a WVO system? Not sure I want to do all of the collecting and filtering, I just want something that won't have me calling a tow truck on a monthly basis.
    For the filter I just installed a Racor Aquablok 2 micron, with a clear bowl on the bottom, has excellent water separation and is a 2 micron filter, flows 90GPH.

    As for the pumps im a little curious why you went with the 200GPH? I doubt your filters can flow even half that, and if your seeing 60psi at the pump I dont think thats good for it either, Im wondering if the shop put the wrong setup for your application. Im running the 90GPH Fass standalone pump, from all the research I did they seem to have a better reputation. Do you have a filter before the pump? If so id guess your starving it
    2006 2500 Mega Cab, 4x4, 48RE 4.56's, Inferno Red, PacBrake, Amp steps, air bags, LED bar, Full Thuren suspension with 2.5 Kings 37" Nitto terra grapplers,

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Andover, Ohio
    Posts
    2,363
    Thats also a very good point I didnt think about. . . . if you are pulling/pushing through the stock fuel lines with that large of a pump, you certainly are taxing it heavily. A pump that size needs 1/2" lines minimum. Maybe youve already got em? Im not very familiar with the 12 valves and even less with your mods posted, but if your running any kind of power I would think any kind of mechanical lift pump similar to the oem carter would be asking for trouble. Ive just never seen anything built as an oem replacement worth a darn. As far as running tandem pumps, I would check into that with whatever manufacture your thinking about doing it with as I have heard of people trying that and damaging the downstream pump. pumps are designed to suck and putting a positive pressure on the suction could damage something internally.

    Thats a bummer about your damper causing interference with something like the DTT I would shoot them an email or call them if its something your serious about they may have some other options for you to consider. Personally I will be looking at something like that when the time comes. Like you were saying, it seems like alot of the electric pumps just arent making it longer than a few years. For the price of them, they should be doing better than that.
    JR

    1998.5 24v 4x4

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    The AirDog II 200 is a single unit with pump motor, water separator, and fuel filter all in one. I bought what the people I spoke with at Pureflow Technologies told me to buy, though there was confusion and decision changing on their part in the beginning, hence the having to drive hours back and forth to finally get the right thing. I assumed I needed this much flow from their recommendation. I've spoken with customers and read too many bad things about the FASS as well as the AirDog that I really want to find a mechanical solution. That was a major consideration in doing the engine swap from the beginning and these problems have brought me back to that need for mechanical simplicity and reliability. I'm starting to look at the VegiRam kits but the costs are sky high and it doesn't look likely a simple belt could get it back on the road again if there were a problem.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    The entire fuel system was replaced with the big AirDog kit. New larger draw tube in the tank and fuel lines all the way to the injection pump. I was also told to mount the pump as close as possible to the tank because these pumps do better pushing fluid than pulling it so I have a custom bracket mounting the entire assembly above and just slightly in front of the rear axle.

    I'm eager to hear back from DTT, especially after reading of others with similar setups having success. It looks like the MITUSA may not have been offered in a few years so the Assassin may now dominate that market. Been looking into the WVO systems and all use or offer an electric pump so I'm now most hopeful a pulley driven pump can be made to work. It's doubtful though with the big plastic fan. Will require some careful measuring. I read of someone finding a Racor filter that has the water separator at the bottom as well as a built in primer that primes in only 5-10 seconds. I used to spend half an hour priming those OEM lift pumps.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Snowflake, Arizona
    Posts
    3,168
    14 mechanical lift pumps in 2 years!!?? What was failing with them? How about the 1st. gen. style, will they work? My '91 with 312k miles only had one fail, my Ford is on the original.



    I assume your conversion was originally gas powered? If so, might the fuel tank suction assembly not flow enough for diesel??



    Have you cured your overheating issues, probably not related, just wondering.



    Nick
    74F350 4x2w/90ctd,5spd Clark w/3spd Spicer-aux, aftercooler w/#16 hsg, 8.5cfm Holset air comp,air horns,seats,Pacbrake,overloads, maxi brake 5"stacks, aluminum bed. 01quad cab 4x4,ctd,6spdw/3.55,275s ,edge EZ, BD brake. 91.5 D250ctd 5spd, 50 hp inj. #16, pac brake.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    No idea what failed inside the mechanical lift pumps. What is different between the first and second generation lift pumps? I've never had a first gen so I don't know. The Cummins replaced a 7. 3 PSD so it has always been all diesel. As mentioned above, the AirDog came with a new, larger draw tube anyway.

    Haven't overheated in a couple years. Lost a shroud, radiator, and chunks of my fan in the middle of nowhere in BC on the Alaska Highway. Took 5 days to get parts and fabricate to rebuild the cooling system. Still running those roadside repairs years later. The new radiator was a single core. It must be able to draw fresh air through it more easily because it sure runs cooler. Also while in Canada we finally developed a visible coolant leak. I think it had been a pin sized leak for years keeping the system from being perfectly air tight. Swapped out that hose and we've never boiled over since. Also running a Superstat for a Mopar big block that doesn't quite keep the engine within operating range under big loads or in extreme heat or cold, but it's better than no stat. Used to stay fairly steady but swings increasingly more like the Cummins stats traditionally did.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Snowflake, Arizona
    Posts
    3,168
    [QUOTE=MMcCallie;2322557]No idea what failed inside the mechanical lift pumps. What is different between the first and second generation lift pumps? I've never had a first gen so I don't know. The Cummins replaced a 7. 3 PSD so it has always been all diesel. As mentioned above, the AirDog came with a new, larger draw tube anyway.





    I don't have a clue what the flow difference is or if they will even fit but I would think they would. Someone with more knowledge than I will probably respond. If you go to Geno's web site they have a good photo for comparison. I would think the cam lobe and block face would be the same.



    I wonder if your cam lobe is bad causing the pumps to fail/not pump?



    Nick
    74F350 4x2w/90ctd,5spd Clark w/3spd Spicer-aux, aftercooler w/#16 hsg, 8.5cfm Holset air comp,air horns,seats,Pacbrake,overloads, maxi brake 5"stacks, aluminum bed. 01quad cab 4x4,ctd,6spdw/3.55,275s ,edge EZ, BD brake. 91.5 D250ctd 5spd, 50 hp inj. #16, pac brake.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    I've wondered about the cam lobe as well, but they all would work just fine. . . until they didn't.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    530
    AirDog is sending me yet another motor. I've seriously lost track of how many this will be. This time they are not charging me. They claim the motor has to be the problem, not the harness. Amperage draw should never be as low as 5, should be 10-17 even at 60 psi. Guess I have to give it yet another chance but I sure as heck am leery and nervous about hauling cattle any distance.
    2000 Excursion: 1994 5.9, 913, DDP3s, Garrett Stage 2, ported head & exhaust, custom intake, fire rings, ARPs, 17.5*, AirDog 2/200, HXPB, BTS 4R100, PCS TCU, '06 F-350 suspension & axles, ARBs, PSC steering, 16,800 Atlas Winch, 37" Geolander A/Ts, 18x9 ATX Slot, BD X-Monitor, water injection

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Andover, Ohio
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    Im curious why you maintain such high pressure? 60 psi sounds like enough to send a rocket to the moon!
    JR

    1998.5 24v 4x4

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